[ASC-list] In Reply to Suburban Spying
maia.sauren at gmail.com
Thu Jun 28 00:31:02 UTC 2012
Your consciousness raising is appreciated. I'm sure there are plenty
of people who do not understand the scale of the reach of the
Then again, plenty of us do know, and choose to participate anyway.
You are welcome to make different choices.
Maia Sauren, PhD
PO Box 12304, Melbourne VIC 8006, Australia
maia.sauren at gmail.com | +61408824846 | @sauramaia
On 28 June 2012 05:03, Charles Willock <charlesw at cse.unsw.edu.au> wrote:
> Hi Magdeline / All,
> My mail was not intended, and should not be interpreted as, an
> attack on the WA Branch, nor on Phil, nor on UMelb. It was a
> consciousness raising exercise about (ongoing and important)
> problems with Facebook and others.
> You raise a number of issues and I'll address them albeit not
> necessarily in the order you wrote them.
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 09:59:38PM +0800, Magdeline Lum (ML) wrote:
> ML> [...] I do recognise while it may not be for everyone, I do not
> ML> think that it is fair to impart personal misgivings and choices
> ML> on those who are in the social media sphere and working there
> ML> producing content to communicate science. [...]
> I'm in the computing, visual and linguistic analysis industry.
> You are welcome to call them professional misgivings as well
> if you wish - which in some way justifies responding on-list.
> ML> The WA Branch Facebook page is not designed to exclude or diminish
> ML> contact with members who have chosen not to be part of Facebook or
> ML> any other form of social media.
> I'm confident that you have not designed extra features to exclude
> or diminish contact via The WA Branch Facebook page ... the problem
> is that *Facebook* "is designed to exclude or diminish contact with
> members who have chosen not to be part of Facebook ..." A "tragedy
> of the commons" in the online world. Facebook or other social media
> organisations benefit from both member and non-participant losses.
> ML> The genie was long been let out of the bottle and it is what it is.
> With respect, it is only the monster it is if we let it.
> ML> Much of what is reported in mainstream media is related to privacy
> ML> settings that individual users have control over and are unaware of
> ML> them.
> Huh? Just because the mainstream media hasn't caught up yet doesn't
> mean that, regardless of privacy settings, data collection and
> analysis isn't taking place on a major scale.
> ML> Furthermore, confusing the issue with what service providers like
> ML> Telstra tracking how their customers are using their mobile Next G
> ML> accounts is not helping and with the latest news updates I've seen,
> ML> Telstra is rectifying or has rectified this. And given that this
> ML> is a developing situation, best follow the media reports or ask
> ML> Telstra.
> I consider both Telstra (and other businesses large and small) and
> Social Media service suppliers as potential abusers of data.
> Correcting misbehaviour "one-at-a-time" seems like a slow way to do
> it. It also suffers from what, in control system theory, are termed
> proportional control offset errors ... In practical terms, if you
> adjust only for the error at hand. Misbehaviour is always ahead of
> people wising up or devising legislation to prevent it.
> ML> If you have chosen not to take part in social media, then that is
> ML> your choice. I respect that but please, respect those who have
> ML> chosen or have to participate in this space.
> I understand you are asking for symmetry and respect in dealings
> with ... lets call them SMchoosers for want of a neutral term.
> Then no doubt you'd also appreciate that:
> o. when SMchoosers deal with me I don't have an "Invisible
> Friend" who collects their choices, logs their likes and
> dislikes, records their links usage, tracks their location,
> reads their email, analyses their opinions on forums,
> monitors their wakefulness, sells those details, etc.
> o. I'd be fine if the respect and symmetry in the relationship
> was such that they treated me in the same way as I treat
> them ...
> In the terminolgy that you used ... that of respect, I'm not getting
> that respect in return from SMchoosers. Their choice to have an
> Invisible Friend who behaves badly is an unwanted imposition and
> disrespects me.
> But doesn't that identify exactly where the problem lies ... with
> the bad behaviour of SMchooser's Invisible Friend.
>> On 27/06/2012, at 9:22 PM, Charles Willock wrote:
>> > There are serious problems with Facebook (among a number of other
>> > providers of social networking services).
>> > I don't have a Facebook account. So why when I click on a link
>> > under "Recommended Episodes" on
>> > http://upclose.unimelb.edu.au/
>> > do I get a response "from Facebook". (Sorry Dyani, its not your fault,
>> > the science is excellent, but being tracked by Facebook is not.)
>> > Once when one did a Google search, one could click on one of the
>> > links and go directly to the designated page. Now, if I click on
>> > a link, Google "phones home". (No, I don't need to have cookies
>> > enabled for that to happen.)
>> > The science of network content analysis is way, way ahead of what
>> > the public understands.
>> > For a public perception, the 'nightlife' program on ABC radio
>> > will be canvassing this as their "issue of the day" tonight
>> > ... from perhaps a little bit before 1 AM depending on the timing
>> > of the end of "The Quiz".
>> > Some links which may be of interest:
>> > http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2012/s3533869.htm
>> > http://www.news.com.au/technology/dislike-logging-out-wont-stop-facebook-spying-on-you/story-e6frfro0-1226146982274
>> > Why should anyone be tracking my search terms; following my link
>> > usage; identifying my map locations; monitoring my GPS; reading my;
>> > mail to any gmail users etc. logging/analysing my opinions on
>> > forums, etc.
>> > Good luck with your quest Phil.
>> > Charlesw
>> > On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:37:54AM +0800, Phillip Arena wrote:
>> >> :)
>> >> I hope that this does not 'disadvantage' those of us that choose
>> >> to not engage with Facebook.
>> >> Regards
>> >> Phil
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: asc-list-bounces at lists.asc.asn.au on behalf of Magdeline Lum
>> >> Sent: Wed 6/27/2012 5:23 AM
>> >> To: asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au
>> >> Subject: [ASC-list] WA Branch Facebook Page
>> >> Want to keep up with the latest in science communication in Western Australia?
>> >> The WA Branch of ASC now has a facebook page for you to "Like".
>> >> Events and PD opportunity details will be posted as well as photos from these events.
>> >> We have also enabled the "Message" button to allow members to contact the WA committee on Facebook.
>> >> http://www.facebook.com/AuSciCommWA
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Magdeline Lum
>> >> President WA Branch ASC
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> ASC-list mailing list
>> >> list at asc.asn.au
>> >> http://www.asc.asn.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=97&Itemid=115
>> > "Creativity and innovation are measured not by what is done,
>> > but by what could have been done ... but wasn't"
>> > Disclaimer: http://www.eng.unsw.edu.au/emaildis.htm
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Charles Willock charlesw at cse.unsw.edu.au
>> > c/- School of Computer Science and Engineering
>> > University of New South Wales,
>> > New South Wales Australia 2052 http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~charlesw
>> ASC-list mailing list
>> list at asc.asn.au
> "Creativity and innovation are measured not by what is done,
> but by what could have been done ... but wasn't"
> Disclaimer: http://www.eng.unsw.edu.au/emaildis.htm
> Charles Willock charlesw at cse.unsw.edu.au
> c/- School of Computer Science and Engineering
> University of New South Wales,
> New South Wales Australia 2052 http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~charlesw
> ASC-list mailing list
> list at asc.asn.au
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