[ASC-list] Debate in the public sphere and who is our new president?

Susan Kirk skirk at iprimus.com.au
Mon Dec 2 21:56:21 UTC 2013


I'm glad you brought this up Cobi.  I didn't realise that non members could
subscribe and read until amidst the furore of the last discussion a non
member told me.  I'm not sure I find that comforting.

I had similar thoughts a year or so ago I was posting something a thinking
oh god I hope so and so isn't a member.  That's amplified now I know its
open slather.  At the time I emailed Jesse asking if there was a member list
for the ASC accessible to members.  There isn't.  He said it would be an
option with the new website, but still only an option.

I do know my posts are 'public', and audience ignorance can be a bit of a
censor really, especially professionally, because you know discussions like
CSIRO PR people suck may cause me some headache down the track.

I think there's too many off list discussions taking place and if one of the
reasons is privacy then we need to address this.

I also ditto Niall.  I always seek permission public or not but only because
of my personal ethics.

So I would like to see this added to this discussion, should we know who our
members are? and should we close this list?  Would it provide more open
comms?

Thoughts?

Disclaimer: CSIRO pr people most definitely don't suck :)


S


On 3/12/13 6:00 AM, "asc-list-request at lists.asc.asn.au"
<asc-list-request at lists.asc.asn.au> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. debate in the public sphere? (Cobi Smith)
>    2. Re: debate in the public sphere? (Niall Byrne)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 07:14:14 +0000
> From: Cobi Smith <cobi.smith at anu.edu.au>
> To: "asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au" <asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au>
> Subject: [ASC-list] debate in the public sphere?
> Message-ID:
> <9F18565599BC9344A222CAAD46B868FA74DAD6 at HKXPRD0610MB353.apcprd06.prod.outlook.
> com>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi ASC-ers,
> 
> a question for discussion: do ASC members consider the ASC mailing list to be
> public content?
> 
> I am interested to know this because when I read this story today:
> http://www.womensagenda.com.au/talking-about/opinions/van-badham-battles-the-b
> rosphere-on-women-trolls-and-the-australian-media-in-2013/201312023287
> I reflected that I consider discussion on the ASC list to be part of discourse
> in the public sphere, such as discussed in the article.
> 
> However I get the impression some see the ASC list as more private or closed.
> I've been involved in several discussions off-list in response to recent list
> communications, linked to others' feeling this list *is* public and perhaps
> not wanting certain things on public record.
> 
> Given that as I understand, the ASC list is available for non-members to
> subscribe, and can be accessed without subscribing to the list via:
> http://lists.asc.asn.au/pipermail/asc-list/
> I consider it in the public sphere. For those of us researching discourse
> about science and values in Australia and associated politics, ASC list
> discussion can be thought-provoking.
> 
> I'm also involved in other member-based organizations discussing this type of
> issue, and I've been surprised at the level of privacy some feel is associated
> with mailing lists, in contrast to for example Twitter which is readily
> identified as public.
> 
> I'm not doing this as a research project - I'm just interested in thoughts of
> other science communicators. For anyone working in this space, I think
> understanding and considering implications of publicness could be a stronger
> aspect of social media training, as I remain surprised about peoples'
> perceptions of it from trainings I've facilitated.
> 
> Cheers, Cobi
> 
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 07:35:54 +0000
> From: Niall Byrne <niall at scienceinpublic.com.au>
> To: Cobi Smith <cobi.smith at anu.edu.au>, "asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au"
> <asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au>
> Subject: Re: [ASC-list] debate in the public sphere?
> Message-ID:
> <252D7BC7826F794FBE6BC799874B06B46586A5DC at MBX021-E3-NJ-2.exch021.domain.local>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> That's an easy one.
> 
> Professor Google can find it, and as you say it's on a website. So it's a
> members only conversation being held in public space. It's public even though
> it feels private. And that can be a trap if you don't know.
> 
> For example anyone who posts embargoed information to either ASC List has
> accidentally just broken their own embargo. New Scientist used to regularly do
> that.
> 
> But if I was going to reproduce a chunk of discussion from the list I think I
> would both acknowledge the source and ask the writer if they're happy for me
> to do so.
> 
> The brosphere (didn't know it had a name) is a problem that's not really been
> seen on the ASC List, I guess because posting is member-only.
> 
> But The Conversation suffers from it especially when women in science issues
> are raised. I think they'll have to introduce some level of moderation to
> maintain the value.
> 
> Niall
> 
> 
> 
> ________
> 
> Niall Byrne
> 
> Science in Public
> 0417 131 977, 
> niall at scienceinpublic.com.au<mailto:niall at scienceinpublic.com.au>
> Twitter scienceinpublic
> Full contact details at
> www.scienceinpublic.com.au<http://www.scienceinpublic.com.au/>
> 
> 
> From: ASC-list [mailto:asc-list-bounces at lists.asc.asn.au] On Behalf Of Cobi
> Smith
> Sent: Monday, 2 December 2013 6:14 PM
> To: asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au
> Subject: [ASC-list] debate in the public sphere?
> 
> Hi ASC-ers,
> 
> a question for discussion: do ASC members consider the ASC mailing list to be
> public content?
> 
> I am interested to know this because when I read this story today:
> http://www.womensagenda.com.au/talking-about/opinions/van-badham-battles-the-b
> rosphere-on-women-trolls-and-the-australian-media-in-2013/201312023287
> I reflected that I consider discussion on the ASC list to be part of discourse
> in the public sphere, such as discussed in the article.
> 
> However I get the impression some see the ASC list as more private or closed.
> I've been involved in several discussions off-list in response to recent list
> communications, linked to others' feeling this list *is* public and perhaps
> not wanting certain things on public record.
> 
> Given that as I understand, the ASC list is available for non-members to
> subscribe, and can be accessed without subscribing to the list via:
> http://lists.asc.asn.au/pipermail/asc-list/
> I consider it in the public sphere. For those of us researching discourse
> about science and values in Australia and associated politics, ASC list
> discussion can be thought-provoking.
> 
> I'm also involved in other member-based organizations discussing this type of
> issue, and I've been surprised at the level of privacy some feel is associated
> with mailing lists, in contrast to for example Twitter which is readily
> identified as public.
> 
> I'm not doing this as a research project - I'm just interested in thoughts of
> other science communicators. For anyone working in this space, I think
> understanding and considering implications of publicness could be a stronger
> aspect of social media training, as I remain surprised about peoples'
> perceptions of it from trainings I've facilitated.
> 
> Cheers, Cobi
> 
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