[ASC-list] Interesting article by Melissa Sweet Croakey blogger

Susan Kirk skirk at iprimus.com.au
Fri Mar 1 05:19:43 UTC 2013


Hi Niall, Will, and everyone.

I wasn't actually touting for the Conversation.  I actually think this site
contains a lot of biased journalism and trolls.  I was actually thinking
more along the lines of ScienceAlert (for something close to home) and many
more websites that promote science. There are other people that probably
have a better list than I.

Mainstream media may capture that amount of readers.  I don't know I haven't
done the research.  Most of the stuff I (skim) read talks about loss of
readership, but again I don't have specific figures.  However, readership
numbers are generally only fixed to sell advertising.  The demographics may
explain something totally different when it comes to science readers.  Also
I don't think TV or radio was mentioned in the article, which is a different
set of numbers.

The reason for the closing of some of the mastheads at Rural Press had to do
with costs (obviously lol) but what I'm getting at is they said it was the
lack of advertising dollar compared to the cost of printing.  So it makes
sense to go to a medium that has less overheads.

A lot of the new media models are developing paywalls such as Crikey. I'm
not sure how well they are floating because I cringe at the cost of their
subscription plans.  Some of the independent news-sites are relying on
charity, (crowd funding,) such as New Matilda.  I would be interested to
find out how much of that funded dollar goes back to support writers. So the
transference to new media by the old school media doesn't always translate
to a fair, profitable or unbiased industry.

I have to agree with Will.  Don't underestimate the power of social media
and websites, especially when it comes to reaching an audience.

I'm not sure I understand Niall when you say we have to try and re-engage
with old school science and medical reporters?  Why not try and engage more
with the 'new school,' bloggers, and social media commentators?  I can
guarantee the old school will have to convert or else take up a PR job at
sometime in the future.  It's already happening.

We really need to be supporting indie journalists more, especially if we
would like to see more of that investigative journalism Niall talks about.

S

  


On 1/03/13 1:18 PM, "asc-list-request at lists.asc.asn.au"
<asc-list-request at lists.asc.asn.au> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Interesting article by Melissa Sweet Croakey blogger
>       (Niall Byrne)
>    2. Re: Interesting article by Melissa Sweet Croakey blogger
>       (Will Grant)
>    3. Re: ASC-list Digest, Vol 99, Issue 36 (Marina Hurley)
>    4. Re: ASC-list Digest, Vol 99, Issue 36 (Rob Morrison)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 00:32:35 +0000
> From: Niall Byrne <niall at scienceinpublic.com.au>
> To: "asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au" <asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au>
> Subject: Re: [ASC-list] Interesting article by Melissa Sweet Croakey
> blogger
> Message-ID:
> <252D7BC7826F794FBE6BC799874B06B42FA38B47 at MBX021-E3-NJ-2.exch021.domain.local>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> The article is by founding ASC member Leigh Dayton, former science writer at
> the SMH then the Australian.
> 
> And yes we all know that the business model for newspapers is broken - Google
> and others stole the advertising.
> 
> But there's a danger if we think that our own blogging, tweeting and
> facebooking is going to fill the gap.
> 
> Firstly there's an urgent need for good, skilled investigative journalism of
> the kind that Leigh has done many times over the years.
> 
> Secondly platforms that are often touted as an alternative, such as The
> Conversation, are not for the most part independent reporting. The
> Conversation has done a brilliant job of getting scientists to comment and
> editorialise. But that's not journalism. It's important but different.
> 
> And finally, while we blog, tweet and facebook to the converted, old school
> media are still reaching millions. Channel Seven News on Sundays after the
> footie reaches over 700,000 in Melbourne alone. The Herald Sun and the
> Telegraph jointly reach well over a million people every day. Fairfax probably
> has about half that reach - but still a decent half a million or so. These are
> the kinds of numbers that we are nowhere near achieving in new media yet. And
> radio audiences continue to grow through broadcast and online.
> 
> ASC was founded by journalists and communicators and I think we need to
> explore ways of reengaging with 'old-school science and medical reporters'.
> 
> Niall
> 
> 
> Niall Byrne
> 
> Creative Director
> Science in Public
> 82?Hudsons Road, Spotswood? Vic? 3015
> PO Box 2076 Spotswood VIC 3015
> 03 9398 1416, 0417 131 977
> 
> niall at scienceinpublic.com.au
> Twitter @scienceinpublic
> Full contact details at www.scienceinpublic.com.au
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asc-list-bounces at lists.asc.asn.au
> [mailto:asc-list-bounces at lists.asc.asn.au] On Behalf Of Susan Kirk
> Sent: Friday, 1 March 2013 9:55 AM
> To: asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au
> Subject: [ASC-list] Interesting article by Melissa Sweet Croakey blogger
> 
> http://blogs.crikey.com.au/croakey/2013/02/24/from-the-perfect-job-to-an-endan
> gered-species-the-demise-of-science-journalism-and-why-it-matters/
> 
> Surely, while we may be losing some of the reporting in mainstream media, we
> are all madly blogging, tweeting, facebooking (for want of a better word) and
> staging events, etc etc. Is it really news that the mainstream media is
> becoming 'not so' mainstream?  Social media and the internet (apps, websites
> etc) is advancing.
> 
> ASC should be seen as addressing these sorts of comments and articles and at
> the same time highlighting what our members are doing?  Can I suggest a reply
> on the ASC website?
> 
> As a member, I can start.  I blog.  I tweet. I have a facebook page and a
> facebook group  I also write for Fairfax Media for titles that used to be
> owned by Rural Press.  However, Fairfax, in its wisdom, have deleted a few of
> these mastheads and the couple it has kept are focussing heavily on the
> internet/tablet model to deliver news.
> 
> I would also argue that the internet is a better medium than print for complex
> science stories via the addition of audio, hyperlinks, images and video.  Also
> freelancers are playing a big role in delivering some of the complex science
> that takes many man/woman hours to get right.  Some of these stories are, by
> necessity, long and they are not going to see the light of day in newspapers
> for that reason.  Newspapers are fast becoming extinct, not the journalists.
> 
> S
> 
> 
> Susan Kirk   B.comm  freelance Journalist
> Member and Queensland Web Editor -  Australian Science Communicators (ASC)
> Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance (MEAA)
> 
> tel: +61 7 5478 6761 | mobile: 0423342867 | email: susan at susankirk.com.au
> www.susankirk.com.au |  Skype: susanakirk | Tweet: susanakirk
> 
> ?If you don?t ask the right questions you won?t get the right answers.?
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ASC-list mailing list
> list at asc.asn.au
> http://www.asc.asn.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=97&Itemid=115
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 12:32:20 +1100
> From: Will Grant <will.grant at anu.edu.au>
> To: Niall Byrne <niall at scienceinpublic.com.au>
> Cc: "asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au" <asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au>
> Subject: Re: [ASC-list] Interesting article by Melissa Sweet Croakey
> blogger
> Message-ID: <10463313-6E92-4FFA-AE78-3EF261BB6404 at anu.edu.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> It's probably pedantic of me to take exception, but Google (and others) didn't
> 'steal' anything. Advertisers (and everyday people selling things) simply
> moved to a better value offering.
> 
> But more importantly, that numbers argument just isn't the case anymore. There
> are plenty of new media voices who reach those numbers every day, and these
> aren't just traditional media players who've added Facebook. They are also
> reaching these magical 'unconverted' people too.
> 
> Will
> 
> On 01/03/2013, at 11:32 AM, Niall Byrne <niall at scienceinpublic.com.au> wrote:
> 
>> The article is by founding ASC member Leigh Dayton, former science writer at
>> the SMH then the Australian.
>> 
>> And yes we all know that the business model for newspapers is broken - Google
>> and others stole the advertising.
>> 
>> But there's a danger if we think that our own blogging, tweeting and
>> facebooking is going to fill the gap.
>> 
>> Firstly there's an urgent need for good, skilled investigative journalism of
>> the kind that Leigh has done many times over the years.
>> 
>> Secondly platforms that are often touted as an alternative, such as The
>> Conversation, are not for the most part independent reporting. The
>> Conversation has done a brilliant job of getting scientists to comment and
>> editorialise. But that's not journalism. It's important but different.
>> 
>> And finally, while we blog, tweet and facebook to the converted, old school
>> media are still reaching millions. Channel Seven News on Sundays after the
>> footie reaches over 700,000 in Melbourne alone. The Herald Sun and the
>> Telegraph jointly reach well over a million people every day. Fairfax
>> probably has about half that reach - but still a decent half a million or so.
>> These are the kinds of numbers that we are nowhere near achieving in new
>> media yet. And radio audiences continue to grow through broadcast and online.
>> 
>> ASC was founded by journalists and communicators and I think we need to
>> explore ways of reengaging with 'old-school science and medical reporters'.
>> 
>> Niall
>> 
>> 
>> Niall Byrne
>> 
>> Creative Director
>> Science in Public
>> 82 Hudsons Road, Spotswood  Vic  3015
>> PO Box 2076 Spotswood VIC 3015
>> 03 9398 1416, 0417 131 977
>> 
>> niall at scienceinpublic.com.au
>> Twitter @scienceinpublic
>> Full contact details at www.scienceinpublic.com.au
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asc-list-bounces at lists.asc.asn.au
>> [mailto:asc-list-bounces at lists.asc.asn.au] On Behalf Of Susan Kirk
>> Sent: Friday, 1 March 2013 9:55 AM
>> To: asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au
>> Subject: [ASC-list] Interesting article by Melissa Sweet Croakey blogger
>> 
>> http://blogs.crikey.com.au/croakey/2013/02/24/from-the-perfect-job-to-an-enda
>> ngered-species-the-demise-of-science-journalism-and-why-it-matters/
>> 
>> Surely, while we may be losing some of the reporting in mainstream media, we
>> are all madly blogging, tweeting, facebooking (for want of a better word) and
>> staging events, etc etc. Is it really news that the mainstream media is
>> becoming 'not so' mainstream?  Social media and the internet (apps, websites
>> etc) is advancing.
>> 
>> ASC should be seen as addressing these sorts of comments and articles and at
>> the same time highlighting what our members are doing?  Can I suggest a reply
>> on the ASC website?
>> 
>> As a member, I can start.  I blog.  I tweet. I have a facebook page and a
>> facebook group  I also write for Fairfax Media for titles that used to be
>> owned by Rural Press.  However, Fairfax, in its wisdom, have deleted a few of
>> these mastheads and the couple it has kept are focussing heavily on the
>> internet/tablet model to deliver news.
>> 
>> I would also argue that the internet is a better medium than print for
>> complex science stories via the addition of audio, hyperlinks, images and
>> video.  Also freelancers are playing a big role in delivering some of the
>> complex science that takes many man/woman hours to get right.  Some of these
>> stories are, by necessity, long and they are not going to see the light of
>> day in newspapers for that reason.  Newspapers are fast becoming extinct, not
>> the journalists.
>> 
>> S
>> 
>> 
>> Susan Kirk   B.comm  freelance Journalist
>> Member and Queensland Web Editor -  Australian Science Communicators (ASC)
>> Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance (MEAA)
>> 
>> tel: +61 7 5478 6761 | mobile: 0423342867 | email: susan at susankirk.com.au
>> www.susankirk.com.au |  Skype: susanakirk | Tweet: susanakirk
>> 
>> ?If you don?t ask the right questions you won?t get the right answers.?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ASC-list mailing list
>> list at asc.asn.au
>> http://www.asc.asn.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=97&Itemid=115
>> _______________________________________________
>> ASC-list mailing list
>> list at asc.asn.au
>> http://www.asc.asn.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=97&Itemid=115
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 13:44:03 +1100
> From: Marina Hurley <info at writingclearscience.com.au>
> To: Rob Morrison <rob.morrison at flinders.edu.au>
> Cc: asc-list at lists.asc.asn.au
> Subject: Re: [ASC-list] ASC-list Digest, Vol 99, Issue 36
> Message-ID:
> <CAHJfoVtX=meWE3OJ9NFMv4Jvk7dhGbNO2tREZooPVYg5LFZx8Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> This is a great idea and I appreciate you putting this all in perspective.
> As I said previously, I am happy to asssist in the process. However I am
> not sure what the next step in proceeding with this idea should be - with
> regard to establishing consensus on setting this up and operating it, and
> how to establish an online vehicle to receive and display this information
> from (and to) members.
> 
> my regards
> 
> Marina
> 
> On 28 February 2013 11:34, Rob Morrison <rob.morrison at flinders.edu.au>wrote:
> 
>>  I have chopped some of the thread as it was getting longish, but this
>> takes us back a few years. We were then considering various "guides" in ASC
>> that might improve the professioinal lot of science communicators. I did
>> some guidelines and a protocol for electronic Media Releases, and these
>> were on our ASC website for years, but would need updating or considerable
>> revision now (if they were still worth having).
>> 
>> Julian Cribb also had a good go at a code of ethics, and others were
>> tinkering with similar things. More recently there was an idea to produce a
>> "What is Science" piece for the website, but it fell by the wayside for
>> various reasons.
>> 
>> The style guide was discussed in those earlier years, and several people
>> indicated interest, but one idea was a kind of cumulative guide on the ASC
>> website in which anyone could contribute a view on a particular aspect of
>> science communication (eg punctuation, use of "breakthrough", pronunciation
>> of "kilometre" etc), and these would slowly build into a collection of
>> "guide points" that could be referred to.
>> 
>> This has the merit of not simply reproducing what might already be in
>> other style guides, but providing a bit more of a discussion element to
>> matters of stylistic interest which may change over time or may not even be
>> addressed elsewhere
>> 
>> Of course these entries/propositions would not always meet with unanimous
>> agreement, but they could be helpful if they:
>> 
>> 1. were brief (perhaps a max word count);
>> 2; indicated broadly their nature (eg pronunciation, grammar, spelling
>> etc);
>> 3. were entered under a one or two word  heading that made them easy to
>> sort and look up;
>> 4. included the reasoning behind the proposition, and
>> 5. cited the initials or minimal identifier of the proposer.
>> 
>> Other elements might be included, but we could, in this way, compile a
>> collection of pet hates, suggestions, arguments, queries etc relevant to
>> science communication that could be useful (and also interesting) to those
>> who like this sort of thing.
>> 
>> EG (a simple example of how such an entry mighty look)
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Kilometre* (pronunciation)
>> 
>> Pronounced KILL-o-metre and not kil-OMM-etre.
>> 
>> Reason:
>> 1. *Consistency*. Fractions or multiples of a metre are pronounced with
>> the emphasis on the first syllable (eg CENT-imetre, MIILL-imetre,
>> DEC-imetre etc.  KIL-ometre deserves the same treatment.
>> 2. *Confusion*. The emphasis on ...OMETER (note different spelling) is
>> used for scientific instruments of measurement (eg thermOMETER,
>> speedOMETER, barOMETER, pyrOMETER etc).
>> 
>> (entry: RM)
>> 
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> 
>> Perhaps with the assistance of a supervising moderating volunteer with
>> some editorial skills, we could start to build on the ASC website a
>> collaborative collection of these things that would serve some role as a
>> guide. It could also prompt queries from communicators who would like more
>> clarification on things that bother them, or questions as to whether one
>> should use or not use endings such as "....ize". That would, of course,
>> sometimes produce different and conflicting advice, but if each was
>> accompanied by a reason, it would be a fruitful and interesting set of
>> observations.
>> 
>> It would also give a bit more form and permanence to these interesting
>> discussions that we have, but which tend to erupt on someone's bad day and
>> then vanish from the field.
>> 
>> Rob
>> 
>> 
>>  Dr Rob Morrison
>> 
>> rob.morrison at flinders.edu.au
>> Phone: (08) 8339 3790
>> Fax: (08)8339 6272
>>  ------------------------------
>> 
>> 






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